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Okay, so - Warlocks get the ability to have Concealment ("misty step" or something like that) every time they move three spaces in a round.

But, Warlocks don't get Stealth as an in-class skill.

You can only use Stealth from concealment. Technically, you're not "concealed" if an enemy can see you, but the Warlock class ability breaks that, and it's a specific case, which trumps general cases.

Now, Stealth breaks down at high speed--you have a -5 to your Stealth roll every time you move more than two squares. That's pretty clear. However, if you have racial Stealth aptitude, the Stealth skill, and Improved Stealth as a feat, a -5 to your roll is not a huge penalty. Also, attacking breaks Stealth.

Using the stealth skill isn't an action - it's like a modifier to an action that doesn't take any time. You make the Stealth check as a part of the action you're trying to be stealthy doing. So, moving 10' under stealth takes the exact same amount of time as moving 10' normally would.

By extension, a warlock that timed things well, by patterning all of his action phases as "attack, THEN move," could theoretically waltz through enemy lines without anyone seeing him, blasting and attacking without fear of reprisal, UNLESS 1) someone made their Perception roll, or 2) someone held an action to attack him when he de-cloaks to attack. Am I wrong in this? The real danger is your character doesn't know that he rolled poorly, or someone else rolled well.

There's a good reason why Warlocks don't get Stealth in-class, I'm thinking...

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( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
octos
Sep. 8th, 2008 09:09 pm (UTC)
They errated the stealth skill a bit. It now takes superior cover/concealment to use stealth in the middle of most combat situations.
spottylogic
Sep. 8th, 2008 09:16 pm (UTC)
Huh, okay. So there are degrees of concealment, and the Warlock power doesn't provide "superior" concealment?

Thanks for the tip, BTW, I've been getting some real milage out of my Shifty kobold stealth-Warlock, but I'd prefer not to abuse the rules, all the same!
texasfanboy
Sep. 9th, 2008 01:05 am (UTC)
PG 281 of the PHB outlines it fairly well.

There's the -2 Concealment, and the -5 Total Concealment. The Warlock power description doesn't specify which you get when your feature triggers. Since the -5 is supposed to represent invisibility, I'd assume you get the -2.

The rules in the sidebar about making the stealth check at the end begin with discussions about invisibility or total darkness -- I don't think they're meant to apply to normal circumstances. They might've applied in the skeleton room, since that was pitch-black until the fire started getting thrown around, but not so much for the other encounters.

I'm also not certain how well those rules would interact with any life-detection powers the undead might posess (not owning the Monster's Manual or the DMG).

Granting the "move 3 squares and make a skill roll for damned well near at-will invisility" feature is grossly unbalancing. A "stay mobile and opponents are at -2 to hit you" makes much more sense.
spottylogic
Sep. 9th, 2008 01:13 am (UTC)
Yeah, the Warlock power just grants you "concealment," it doesn't specify which kind. There's a fair bit of ambiguity in the way the rules work here. Like I said, not trying to abuse the rules - but on the other hand, would Stealth and the Warlock's auto-concealment power stack in any meaningful way?

Yeah, I do think it's a little abusive, and I'm surprised they don't directly address that. I'm going to look in the errata.

On the other hand, this sort of power-stacking would grant a really sloppy version of "invisibility." Attack breaks stealth automatically, and it wouldn't work well on anything with half a brain, since it relies on a contested die roll (though that leans heavily on the GM's desire to roll a perception check for every figure on the board).

Hopefully this is cleared up somewhere...
octos
Sep. 9th, 2008 02:54 am (UTC)
You just have to get used to the keyword concept and a lot of the ambiguity melts away. In the Shadow Walk description it says it grants concealment, which is a keyword in the combat section. Concealment is -2 and total concealment is -5 (phb281).

The online rules compendium (http://ww2.wizards.com/dnd/insider/database.aspx) has the errata included and is easier than using the PDFs. The Stealth entry- http://ww2.wizards.com/dnd/insider/skill.aspx?id=20&searchterm=stealth
spottylogic
Sep. 9th, 2008 02:09 pm (UTC)
Thanks. I do like 4th ed, but one of its big pitfalls is that it only tells you something ONCE, and you better have been paying attention! I didn't catch that "concealment" and "total concealment" were different things, probably because the stealth rules don't specify any advantage from beginning from "concealment." *sigh* Appreciate the help! Between church and her blog I've been meeting a lot of mielikki's friends. she's got good friends :)
nightfolf
Sep. 9th, 2008 01:50 am (UTC)
One day I'd like to play some RPG's again. I did it in HS but rarely got to attend due to lack of rides after school etc. But I'm not sure I could keep up with all the lingo. lol
spottylogic
Sep. 9th, 2008 02:09 pm (UTC)
Just get Whines to translate. It's easier :)
nightfolf
Sep. 9th, 2008 10:04 pm (UTC)
This means RUUUUUN! lol
(Anonymous)
Sep. 9th, 2008 10:05 pm (UTC)
I should note that's me imitating what he'd say, not me running away from him. Just thought I should probably clarify that. lol
nightfolf
Sep. 9th, 2008 10:06 pm (UTC)
Gah. And that was me >.x
spottylogic
Sep. 10th, 2008 12:45 am (UTC)
Clear as brick, as always, sir :)
( 12 comments — Leave a comment )